Man kills teen, claims he thought boy was part of a KKK lynch mob (w/update)
December 24, 2007 by ElfNinosMom
John White of Riverhead, New York, was convicted by a jury of killing Daniel Cicciaro.
White is a grown man, whereas Cicciaro was a teenager. More to the point in this case, White is black, while Cicciaro was white.
Normally I wouldn’t note someone’s race, since it’s irrelevant. However, Mr. White’s defense was based upon race.
Apparently White’s son had gone to a house party with other teenagers. There was a rumor that his son had threatened to rape one of the females at the party. He denied making the threat, but was asked to leave, and he left. It now appears that the MySpace page containing that threat was just another MySpace hoax.
Unfortunately, the teenagers were drinking beer, so of course it didn’t end at that. Phone calls were exchanged between the teens and White’s son, and before you know it, there’s a group of teenage boys showing up in front of the Whites’ home, wanting the son to come outside for a fight.
Now, I can understand why Mr. White was upset. I’d be upset too. However, I’ve been in a similar situation, and I didn’t come out with a gun. You don’t need a gun when you’re an adult dealing with teenagers. You just have to let them know who’s boss. So if I can scare off teenage boys, I know Mr. White can scare off teenage boys. Even if he didn’t want to do that, he could have just locked the door and called the cops. After all, these were unarmed kids, and he knew they were unarmed kids.
I guess Mr. White doesn’t think like a grownup, because instead of scaring the hell out of them, he shot one of them dead.
Okay, I admit, that’s even scarier, but in a very, very bad way.
White’s defense was unusual, to say the least. It wasn’t that he feared the kids would kill or harm his son over the earlier confrontation, which is what you would expect his defense to be. His defense was that the last time a bunch of white folks showed up to see a member of his family, it was the Ku Klux Klan and they burned down his grandfather’s business. So instead of seeing a bunch of mouthy unarmed half-drunk teenage boys spoiling for a fist fight with another teenage boy, he saw a lynch mob there to murder his entire family.
Admittedly, witnessing something like what happened to Grandpa White might very well leave Mr. White with a very serious case of post-traumatic stress disorder, so it seems like a viable defense …. until you find out that what happened to his grandfather occurred thirty years before Mr. White was even born.
Uh-oh.
White said Ciccario grabbed the gun, and it went off accidentally. However, I’m still wondering, what the hell was he thinking, taking a gun outside where there’s a bunch of half-drunk teenage boys? That kind of situation very rarely ends well. In this case it seems that young Mr. Ciccario saw the gun and grabbed it to protect himself and his friends from what undoubtedly appeared to be a gun-wielding maniac, and paid for that action with his life.
Kids, don’t ever grab a gun. If somebody’s dad has gone bat-shit insane and threatens you with one, run. Run as fast as you can. Run until you can’t run anymore. Then, run even harder.
After a three-week trial, a jury rejected White’s defense, and convicted him of second-degree manslaughter. He was also found guilty of criminal possession of a weapon, though the basis of that charge is unclear.
There is no word on who created the bogus MySpace page which sparked the incident in the first place.
UPDATE: One of the jurors, Francois Larche, is now stating that he voted guilty under duress, after suffering “psychological tactics” from other jurors and the judge. The judge told jurors that if they didn’t reach a verdict Saturday, they would have to come back in on Sunday (December 23rd, the last full shopping day before Christmas).
This quote says it all, “I thought about my family and the families of the other jurors. It was not worth it in the end.”
In other words, he decided that holiday shopping on Sunday was more important than a man’s life, so he changed his vote to guilty for the sake of convenience, rather than because he believed the man was actually guilty. There was absolutely no reason why he couldn’t sit in that jury room and refuse to change his vote, if his conscience dictated that the man was not guilty. Honestly, I don’t know how Mr. Larche can live with himself, knowing that he has single-handedly sent a man he considers to be innocent to prison for a very long time.
Had he held out through the fifth day of deliberations on Sunday, rather than giving in on Saturday, a mistrial would almost certainly have been declared, and the prosecution and defense would likely have negotiated a plea which would have included no prison time for Mr. White. So maybe Mr. Larche should have spent more time thinking about Mr. White’s family, rather than thinking about the families of jurors who would be home in a day or so no matter how he voted.
Instead, because Mr. Larche has no backbone, Mr. White is looking down the barrel at 5 to 15 years in prison.
I cannot even begin to tell you how much disdain I have for Mr. Larche. I have sat on a jury in a weeks-long trial, and was elected foreperson by my fellow jurors, so I know first-hand how contentious deliberations can be. Nevertheless, I held out and voted my conscience, even though it was an unpopular opinion, because it was my duty to do so both as a human being and as a juror. I simply don’t understand how anyone can do otherwise, knowing the consequences for the defendant.
While I wish I could say I hope Mr. Larche finds a way to deal with his decision, that’s a lie. I hope he suffers every single day that Mr. White is in prison knowing that, if not for him, Mr. White would not be in prison at all. That may be cold-hearted, but it’s nowhere near as cold-hearted as sending a man to prison for a crime you believe he did not commit.
_________________________
Source: CNN “Man Convicted After Internet Hoax Leads To Deadly Shooting”
Source for Update: CNN “Juror: Judge and Jury pressured me to convict man”
Regardless of the man’s bizarre defense, had I been on the jury I would not have convicted him of anything. If a mob of people over the age of 12 shows up at my house, trespassing on my property and threatening any member of my family, I will not respond unarmed. I have no doubt a group of drunk teenagers could overpower me. I lost my best friend to a man who used the “he grabbed the gun” defense. I doubted it then, and I doubt it now. Still you don’t trespass, threaten, and expect no consequences.
I am very sorry to hear about your friend.
Mr. White didn’t use the “he grabbed the gun” defense, though. That the boy had grabbed the gun was the forensic conclusion (and yes, forensics can easily tell if someone grabbed the gun and it went off).
He used the “I’m so nutty that I think the KKK is coming to kill me even though I know these are just kids who go to school with my son” defense.
As Rocky would say, “That trick never works!”
A responsible adult would have locked the doors and called the cops, if he feared being overpowered. He would not go outside waving a gun at a bunch of kids, because there was too much chance that one of those kids would be killed.
At that point, those kids had not committed any actual crime (except underage drinking and possibly trespassing, if indeed they were on his property). They were merely exercising their constitutional right to assembly. Had they gone further by striking someone, then and only then would a crime have been committed.
So basically, Mr. White shot a kid who had not committed a crime against him, and who was just acting like a typical teenager who’d had a few beers and wanted to show off his machismo.
I suspect you don’t have much recent experience with teenage boys. If they are acting up and an adult reacts in an assertive manner, 99.99% of the time they will disperse and there will be no further confrontation. Only very rarely will they even try to overpower an adult, especially an adult male.
But of course, you and I differ on when deadly force is acceptable. To me, it is never acceptable if there is a viable alternative. In this case, there was a viable alternative, and Mr. White didn’t need to do anything to exercise that alternative since he and his family were already in the house when the kids arrived.
After all, we don’t live in the Wild West, where your only choice is to defend yourself with deadly force. He could have stayed in the house and called the cops if he was so afraid of those kids, and those kids would have suffered consequences for their actions. Within a week or so it would have been discovered that the MySpace page was a hoax, and all the kids would have been friends again, including Mr. White’s son. Problem solved, and no one was hurt, much less ended up dead.
Mr.white is innocent that racist white kid did want to kill his family the man was only defending his family,stupid racist judge and racist jurys convinced him because his BLACK,i hope the civil rights union get involve in this,the man was just defending his son and family from crazy racist white teenagers!
Hiya, James. If Mr. White is indeed innocent, it seems you need to take that up with Mr. Larche, the juror who could have saved Mr. White but decided Christmas shopping was more important than Mr. White’s life.
However, I am curious. Do you know more about this case than what was on CNN, or are you making the assumption that it was a racist case simply because whites and blacks were involved? If you know more about it, please enlighten us. I’m sure we’d all like to know if there is proof that those kids really were a lynch mob.
This man SO should have walked. He defended his home and his family.
Hiya, Mary Mcardle.
Had juror Larche had the gonads to stand by his convictions, rather than wussing out so the jurors could all go Christmas shopping, Mr. White would have walked, at least for the time being (because the state would undoubtedly retry him since the majority of the jury was in favor of conviction).
Who knows what another jury would have decided. It’s possible that if Mr. Larche had stood by his guns (pun intended) the next jury would have acquitted Mr. White. Instead, he’s looking down the barrel (pun intended again) at 5 to 15 years in prison.
On the bright side, Mr. Larche and the other jurors got all their Christmas shopping done, and that’s the most important thing … right?
i feel really sorry for the victim’s family. they lost a son, brother, a friend. but what that boy Daniel did and the rest of his friends they didnt have to do that. Daniel could have simply talk to mr. white’s son at the party about did you make a threat about raping some girl at that party. and if he said no then left it along. it not like it actually tooken place. but i guess when alchol is presume, anything can happen.but i think that i can see john white side of the story. all he saw was a group of angry, white men{which was by the way teen boys}and thought taht it was just a new form of the kkk. so he did what every man do in a time of need. protected his family. it bringd back the case in 1955 in mississippi in which something like that happen instead it wasnt no party but a candy store, no threats on rape just a whistles, and about the same angry men coming up the porch. but the difference is that one blach boy was merciless killed the other accidental death.
Mr. White protected his family. Even if they are a group of teen-age boys they should not be drinking anyway. Isn’t the legal drinking age 21? This is not a fair excuse. They threatened this man’s son and he has the right to protect his family. You’r views are very one sided. Take this from his point of view. A child threatens your child and you’re just gonna sit back and let them “battle it out”? That seems very unlikely. They also violated the trespassing laws. They should have never step foot on this man’s lawn and this never would have happened.
Hi, Andrea. This is a blog, not a news service. Of course my views are one-sided, because the only views I’m presenting are my own.
Yes, if some boy wanted to fight my son, and my son wanted to fight him back, I’d let them fight. If my son didn’t want to fight, I’d close and lock the door. If they didn’t leave after I closed the door, I’d call the cops. The cops would make them leave, possibly charge them with trespassing or underage drinking, and the problem is solved without anybody dying.
What I would not do, as a responsible adult, is take a gun outside to threaten a bunch of kids, because that can only end badly. As long as my son and I are in my own house, and they are not in my house, they pose no actual threat to me or to my child.
However, you still miss my point. The defense in this case claimed that the father thought those boys were with with the KKK and were there to burn down his house. I don’t buy that for a minute. When is the last time you saw or even heard of the KKK burning down someone’s house? Please. That was a stupid defense.
I don’t know what your point is about the boys being underage for drinking. If I follow your logic, because the boys were acting out due to alcohol consumption, the father had the right to kill one of them.
So now we have a death penalty for underage drinking?
Welcome to Frickintardistan, I’m sure you’ll fit right in.
“White is black”?
Good god! What?
I hate it when white people give their response on how black people should respond to racist threats against them. Have you ever experienced racism? For most blacks, this is a daily experience. How many blacks have died unfairly to hands of some racist white asshole????? I don’t care about your opinions and how you think Mr. White should have responded to the racist teens. He defended his family. If Mr. white would have been white and the teens black, your opinions would defintely be different. Most of you that agree that Mr. White did something wrong are prejudice. (I am sure you will claim that is not the case) Once, again if the teens would have been black. No one would have cared. Just another _ igger down would have been the joke of the day. So, please stop acting like it is not a race matter. For those of you who disagree are 90% white anyway, why would you care? You did not care when that teenager was unfairly put into prison for beating up a white boy. Did you ?? Those were just teenagers fighting. Right???
Hi, Colleen. Did you even bother to read what I wrote?
I’ll tell you what I hate. I hate when people come onto my blog, spitting fire, accusing me of racism simply because I dared to write about a black defendant, and trying to tell me what I believe.
In truth, you are a much bigger racist than I will ever be.
How interesting that you assume my reaction would be completely different had Mr. White been white, and the teenagers black. You are wrong, because my reaction would be exactly the same. No grown man, regardless of color, needs to take a gun into that situation. Perhaps you need to read the entry again, especially the paragraph which states
In other words, I don’t care about the race of the parties involved, and wouldn’t have cared or even noted their race had it not been for the fact that Mr. White used race as his defense.
So don’t put words into my mouth. You don’t know me, you know nothing about me. You don’t know how I view the Jena 6, because I have not written about them. The truth is that I believe they were unfairly imprisoned. I also think that Genarlow Wilson was wrongfully convicted, and in fact I wrote about that on this very blog, in a long entry about disparity in prosecution.
However, that does not fit into your preconceived opinion about white people, does it?
I’ll tell you what would be racist, and that would be to assume that Mr. White had the right to kill someone, simply because he is black and claims he felt threatened. Since I don’t approve of a white man doing the same exact thing under the same exact circumstances, then it would be racist for me to believe it was okay for Mr. White to do what he did.
I’ll tell you what else is racist, and that’s you assuming that I believe certain things simply because I am white. But, I guess you don’t see your own racism, and I find that sad because it only restricts your options in life.
This is not about black and white, as far as I’m concerned. It’s about guns, and the proper use of guns in self defense. It is not proper to use a gun in that situation, and I don’t care how threatened he felt since there was no actual threat requiring deadly force. You don’t shoot a teenage boy just because they’re threatening to kick your teenage son’s ass, and I don’t care what color the people involved might be.
Mr. White, if one believes his defense, is too afraid of his own shadow to ever even own a firearm. Unfortunately, he and the boy he killed discovered that truth the hard way.
You are right. I am a racist, because of the discrimination my people have endured for centuries. If white people could some how understand that one’s race should not be an issue, then perhaps racism would end. Perhaps, Obama would not be facing problems due to his race. Why should it matter if he is a black man running for President? In Mr. White’s case I think he should have defended his son. What parent would have stood by and let his son get beaten to death by several racist teens. If you live in today’s time, teens do not fight no more they kill each other. Do you watch the news?? Do you really think the police would have responded to a black boy being harassed by racist white teens. What society do you live in? How many police have been guilty of brutality against black men?? For a white woman, the police would have responded quickly, but for a black man you must be joking. (ha, ha that’s a good one) It is easy for one to say call the police when that one is not black. Especailly when that one probably has not experience discrimination and harassment by the police because of his or her race. Trust me race matters!!! If I am a racist, I have good reason to be. Mr. White had no other choice.
Mr. White should have locked the door and called the cops. Why is that such a hard concept for you to understand? Those kids were in the yard, they weren’t trying to get into his house. As long as he was in his house, he was safe, and so was his family.
I’m not going to argue with you about any of the other subjects you brought up. I will say only that I thought you were a racist, but now I understand that you are actively promoting racism. That’s a whole other ballgame, and I will not allow any racist, regardless of color, to spread their filth on my blog.
Colleen, u my friend are seriously….dumb. it says they were at a PARTY ok, when has a black dude ever been at a “KKK” party? do u think they would have let him in then followed him home? no, they most likely woulda beat him on the spot. yet u continue on about a “group of racist teens”…when it seems to me you were once/ still are part of a “group of racist teens” who is now spittin out a bunch of hypocritical BS to a woman simply bloggin about a situation neither of u were part of…
and i agree with the lady, he could have simply got a little rowdy an scared the kids, instead he got too rowdy (perhaps a little racism in himself kickin in eh??? something to think about) and killed a kid
regardless this dude needs to be locked up he obviously has a violent personality. plus he was just dumb for bringin up something that happend 30 yrs before he was born…c’mon now, thats a sorry excuse..from a sorry human being.
Deny racism if you want to….that is what the world continue to do anyway.
Honestly, I belive you both are totally naive and a bunch of racist dumb asses to believe that racism was not involved and the man had to protect his son.
Good-bye!!!!
Hidden Rednecks!!
Hey Colleen, when you start rantinting we all tune you out. All we hear is BLAH BLAH BLAH. Rasism, is not the same anymore. I didn’t own a slave nore did any of my family. My rasist view derive from from being told that only if you skin is other than white can you receive special scholarships, or attened special schools.
Colleen, you’re a racist, and a dumbass.
So Colleen, by your logic, you and I and ElfNinosMom should all be sexists because of the “discrimination our people have endured for centuries”, and we should be able to take a gun and kill any man whose actions feel sexist and threatening to us and our children. Are any of you rolling your eyes yet, ’cause mine are positively SPINNING.
Some of Colleen’s views are accurate. It is easy to say that racism has changed especially if you don’t experience it on a daily basis. I am not sure how Mr. White should have responded. If I was in that situation, iam not sure how I would respond if it was my son.
As a black man, I continue to experience racism daily. It is sad when I am walking down the street (in a suit) and a white person will look at me and cross the street. I have been stop by the cops numerous of times when I was not speeding and asked to show some type of identification. I belive it is because I am a black man who drives a nice car and when I tell them I work for Morgan Stanley they act like they do not believe me. Countless times, I ‘ve tried to rent an apartment and been asked if I was an African American then told the apartment was no longer available. Sometimes, I think they tell in my voice and tell me its no longer available. I have a great income and excellent credit however that does not seem to matter at times. However, I have a nice place now but it took some time to get it. Countless times I have experience going into stores and being followed or having my bag check when no one else had their check. I don’t understand why anyone would assume just because I am black that I want to steal anything. Racism in this world is still very revelent. It is easy for one to say times has changed. However most people who say that are not black.
Well Reggie, it is not that white people don’t recognize that rasicism exist, it just that we are tired of giving and giving, and trying to be fair for things we had no control of. Slavery and other unfair treatment of blacks by goverment is over. (Just so we are clear, I am not ignorant to the fact that some people havent changed) I’m not trying to say get over it. What I am trying to say is we all face difficulties in life that are caused by people prejudging us. If you think times haven’t changed, then your just being negative. There are people of all races succeeding in America and all over the world. I am not saying racism doesn’t exist, I am only saying that it is not what is holding people down from having a succesful life. The longer people use it as a crutch, the longer it will be something that holds people back. There is plenty of oppertunity for everyone, not just white people.
I agree with your views, but it is still alot harder in this world if you are black. This world has change, but there is alot more changing that needs to take place to overcome racism. It is still a big challenge for blacks to succeed in a racist society. Alot of African Americans feel this way they just don’t talk about it because people are always finding excuses to prove that racism is no longer a problem. You and I may never agree how being black is still a big problem in America. You would have to be black to give a real opinion because you would have experienced it. You may have been discriminated against before, but I have endured a LIFETIME of DISCRIMINATION that is still ongoing today. If the time ever comes when a black man can drive a nice car and not be harassed or beaten or killed for no reason by racist cops, or If I am no longer denied a house or an apartment because of my skin color and not my income or credit, or If my brothers and sisters are treated fairly and equally by the court systems, or If people could stop prejudging me as a thief when I walk into the store, or If I am not bypass a position or a promotion that I well deserved, then I can say to you, you are right racism is not the same. The world really has changed. I can say to you that I understand that you are tired of giving, but I just can’t say that, well at least not yet. I hope that you really thinking sincerely about the things that I said. Please understand this is not a personal attack on anyone but a real life insight on what being black in American is really like. It is a different world for people who are not black. Of course, everyone goes thru problems that’s just life, but can you imagine in addition to life problems being discriminated against just because your skin is a different color??? It is a deep, deep hurt for people of color and most white people can not identify or begin to understand this hurt. It is a different story if you live this life instead of looking in on it. Peace.
I do agree that I definetly have no idea of what it must feel like. However, I don’t see people letting rasism affect them anymore. People are standing up for themselves, and making great strives. The more you focus on the posetive, the less likely the negative will affect you. The courts will never be fair, because they are run my humans. Be proud (I am sure you are) of the good things that are happening. I am not rich, and everthing I have I have worked hard for. No matter what your color, it is the same for all of us. This is how people should look at life if they want rasism to go away. You can never change how other people act, you can only change how you react to them.
Hey Reggie-try living on this entire PLANET as a woman. I can assure you, it’s no picnic. At least you can walk down the street and you think someone white has crossed over to the other side because they fear you. We are the ones walking down the street who have to look in front, behind, and to the side to make sure no one is going to try to KILL us! Listen, I do not want to digress from the original point ElfNinosMom is making here. Mr. White was being a hothead and was trying to CYA by playing the race card. Baloney. Look, I’m getting sick of having all white people being lumped in as ‘racists’; there’s always going to be bad apples in the barrel. There seems to be just as many black people who are guilty of bigotry, but now want to find a way to justify it. Tell you what, you can always find a way to justify something if you really want to. Haven’t we had enough of finding reasons to hate each other? Somebody else is always going to have it worse than you. Apparently, now it’s the Cicciaro family.
How do you think black women feel? They endured racism and sexism?
I am not saying what Mr. White did was right, but please don’t forget the thousands and thousands of black men that have died at the hands of white men just because they were black. How do you think those families felt and still feel? For, so many countless decades the white people that commited the murders of black men and women were given NO TIME IN PRISON or very little time in prison. You want justice for the Cicciaro family and I want just for a genocide that was and still being committed in many ways against the black race. By that I mean the laws are still unfair if a black person is killed by a white person. They still get off or face very little time even for hate crimes this day in age. Where is the justice and why does my skin color have to matter?????????????????????
Reggie: Show us even one law in the United States which allows for any person to receive different punishment based upon their race.
I’ll save you some time. There are none.
Mr. White was not given a harsher punishment than a white person would have gotten for the same crime. The color of his skin would not even have been a factor, except that he made it a factor in his defense.
Mr. White was sentenced to 2-4 years in prison, which is even less than the minimum recommended sentence (meaning he will spend little if any time in prison), and he was even allowed out on bond while his case is being appealed.
How, exactly, is he being treated differently based upon the color of his skin? If anything, he is getting preferential treatment, since the vast majority of people convicted of killing someone are not allowed to bond out pending appeal.
You are not telling the truth. I am done with this blog.
Reggie: You can say that I’m not telling the truth all you want, but that doesn’t make it true.
I actually took the time to research his conviction right before I wrote that.
Look it up for yourself. You’ll see I’m not lying. The judge gave him 2-4 years, and the Cicciaro family said he “got away with murder”. Mr. White was released on $200,000 bond pending appeal, right before Lent.
One would think you’d be happy to know Mr. White wasn’t sent away for 15 years and that he was released while he appeals his conviction; unless of course you’d prefer for him to suffer in prison, because his suffering supports your conspiracy theory and gives you something to complain about.
ElfNinosMom-we had a similar incident in the are I live in. The killer, Ronald Hooker, of Stanfield, Or, was convicted of murder in the death of a 16-year-old boy, Abel Viesca Jr. and sentenced to 25 years in March of 2006. You should have heard the comments-Abel had a record; he was legally intoxicated; he was allegedly gang-affiliated; he was trespassing and deserved what he got. What he was was an UNARMED CHILD. Does it make Reggie feel better that when a white man killed a child, he got a longer sentence? For God’s sake, an adult used a gun on an unarmed child and KILLED HIM! Race obviously played no part in the administration of justice in this case; Hooker is white, the victim was Hispanic. Somebody’s child is dead. The murderer is in jail where he belongs.