To Spank, or Not To Spank? That is the question.
March 4, 2008 by ElfNinosMom
There’s been an ongoing discussion on an earlier thread (about a young couple who literally ignored their baby to death) about whether it is okay to spank children. I’m not exactly sure how this started, except that a first-time commenter named Susanne from Sweden (no url given, but she’s definitely from Sweden based on her IP) wrote:
Hi, I’m a mother of three and soon four kids. I’m from Sweden and I try to follow the news in the US regarding these terrible crimes comitted daily against the lovely American, innocent kids. I am absolutely filled with disgust everytime I read a story like the one about Benjamin Sargent, but unfortunately I can’t help myself but to read on and on. We seldom have stories like these here in Sweden and I know one reason why. The sad thing is that people in the US know too, but choose to do nothing about it. In 1979 (yeah, exactly, almost 30 years ago), Sweden passed a law that prohibited spanking and all other kinds of physical and psychological abuse of children and that is the best law ever!!! WHY DO YOU SPANK YOUR KIDS AND MAKE THEM GROW UP TO TREAT THEIR OWN KIDS EVEN WORSE? FACE THE TRUTH AND GIVE THE RESPECT BACK TO THE ONLY PEOPLE ON EARTH WHO DESERVE IT–YOUR CHILDREN!!!! YOU HAVE TO STAND UP FOR THOSE WHO CANNOT YET STAND UP THEMSELVES!
One of my regular readers, TheDeeZone (hi, Dee!) wrote in response:
Spanking is not the problem. More likely it is that these parents didn’t have good role models as parents either. Yes, I was spanked as a child. NO it wasn’t my parents only form of discipline. You can read more about my views on discipline on my own blog.
To which Suzanne responded:
Hi, spanking is one of the problems because it makes parents lose respect for their kids. People who say things like “yeah, I was spanked when I was a kid, look, it didn’t hurt” are pathetically ashamed of themselves still for being subjected to such treatment when little, they actually defend their offenders much like kids who have been sexually abused put the blame on themselves, it’s so sad. When the abused victims later end up in court rooms all over the country, facing charges for all sorts of crimes, they, strange as it may seem, blame it all on their terrible childhood.
If you want to save the kids of America you have to ban all types of physical and psychological abuse of any kind (it sent a chill down my spine when I read that there are actually schools in the US that allow spanking, felt like I was sent back to Stone Age when reading that) and start respecting your kids. Someone said that your parental education is a better way, well, definitely not if you read the news and the statistics. Also, focus on parents with drug problems and take a look at the weapon laws of your country. It is now time to regain children’s innocence and let them be children, if only the adults could start acting like adults, that is, and not like idiots.
I got a little curious at that point, and asked Susanne:
Susanne, I have a question, just out of curiosity. Upon what do you base your opinions about spanking?
She explained as follows:
Hi, on common sense, mostly, I have also read in the Bible that there is a wise guy saying “treat others like you want to be treated yourself,” and heck no I wouldn’t want a huge giant (from the perspective of a small child that is how it must feel to be spanked by a grown man or woman) beating me up, would you? I mean, let’s face it, it is not normal to hit or abuse the one thing in life that really means something–your own kids. There are reasons to why spanking is banned in 19 countries all over the world. Just look at all the statistics, it’s really scary. Especially young parents seem to have great problems seeing the difference between spanking and abuse and that is devestating in many, many cases, so why allow it? Society’s overall disrespect for kids leads to people suddenly believing that a 5-months-old baby can grab a bottle of formula by himself after seven days of starvation. When society says “Spanking is ok”, people get confused, boundaries tend to drift away, float away and become blurred, one small step at a time. Next day society says “Well, one blow to the head wouldn’t hurt him, it’ll make him stronger”, at least in the mind of an insecure, mentally retarded parent. It’s really sick to hurt and abuse your own children, and if you don’t have enough imagination to figure other ways out to discipline your kids than to beat and abuse them, you shouldn’t even think about having any children at all. We have to defend and care for our little ones, they are the hope for our future and for a better world.
There’s more, but you get the general idea. TheDeeZone responded by telling Susanne, among other things, that the Bible actually says that parents should spank their children.
At that point, I began to wonder what readers think, since there is a pretty diverse group of people reading this blog.
Should we spank, or should we not spank?
Does Susanne have a point when she says that it is “sick” to spank children, or is she out in left field on the spanking question? Or does Dee have a point when she says spanking is not abuse, and it teaches children right from wrong? Is common sense common, or is there room for multiple legitimate views on this issue? What does the Bible say about spanking, since we have two views of it? Were you spanked? Do you spank your children?
Should schools be allowed to spank disobedient students? If so, under what circumstances, and what safeguards should be taken for the student’s safety?
Has the decline in spanking in the United States caused a positive or a negative change in our society as a whole? Do you fear spanking your children, due to concerns that someone will accuse you of abuse?
Does spanking lead to abuse in later generations? Does the US have so many people who abuse children because we ourselves were “abused” by spanking, or is child abuse a separate issue altogether which is not affected by whether one was spanked as a child? Is there more child abuse in the US than there is in other nations, or does it just seem that way because we have so much access to government records combined with our freedom of the press? Is there more abuse than in past generations? Or is there the same amount of abuse (or less) but it is more publicized so it seems to be more common?
Does not spanking children lead them to aberrant adult behavior? Or does spanking them lead to aberrant adult behavior?
All opinions are welcome and encouraged; I merely ask that we all remain civil, since this is a controversial topic.
To me, this is a tricky question. I don’t feel I have the right to tell a parent they are right or wrong in this area…however I do feel that sometimes parents do go to far.
I do not feel that outlawing it will make a difference. There are a lot of things that are illegal and people still do it. If someone is prone to abuse their kids, they are gonna do it whether or not it is illegal…abuse IS illegal….and so is neglect…and children still die from it.
There are some children that have never been spanked that are horrible children/adults. There are children that have been spanked that are great people. It is not that black and white. Nothing is that black and white.
What the person from Sweden is failing to understand is that there is a huge culture difference between the US and other countries. That is like saying that such and such country still canes people that commit crimes and their crime rate it low…so we should start caning people to drop our crime rate! Maybe we should cut off thieves hands too to prevent thefts…
I think **some** of the USA’s issue with child abuse and neglect has to do with how we treat parents and children in general. Yes, I feel that most people do not respect their kids…they don’t even see them as separate beings. They are accessories. Many parents/adults don’t even see their kids as people. That has nothing to do with spanking…that has everything to do with education and changing the way people think. Just like many people don’t see fat people or disable people as a person…they are just inconvenience.
We also as a nation expect parents to have their kids and just go home and figure out how to take care of them on their own. After you bring baby home, most of the time you are left to your own devices with no help at all…and the first few weeks/months of parenthood are tough…and then you are expected to go back to work…and you are expected to enjoy it no matter what…and you aren’t allowed to talk about how you REALLY feel unless you are happy.
It is taboo to talk about how miserable you are.
So you start a downward spiral of mental illness.
And that starts a cycle of abuse…
Anyway, that is my take on it.
Hi,
To wish to be well is a part of becoming well.
Hi, maybe Unicef’s statistics is more reliable than my ramblings:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7407245
Quote from the article: It’s not that developed welfare states necessarily have happier children, says David Parker of UNICEF.
“I think what we know from history in the U.S.,” Parker says, “is that it’s not necessarily how the welfare is provided but the nature of the support. One of the key things is that the role of government is important, but the entire society must have at its heart the idea of improving child well-being.”
The United States fared worst of all 21 countries in health and safety, measured by rates of infant mortality and accidents and injuries. End quote.
Sandy,
What an articulate response. I agree with you. During college I worked in the child development center at my church. The director/preschool minister was amazing. She was insistent that we had little people not children. Her reasoning was by using the terminology we would begin to realize that we were involved in shaping and forming the people not just watching, containing a bunch of kids.
Susanne,
The infant mortality rate in the US is more likely related to the lack of proper health care/insurance. As Sandy pointed out there is a huge difference between Sweden and the US. One of those differences is the size. Sweden is about the size of the California, the 3rd largest state.
Elfninosmom,
Should we spank, or should we not spank?
Spanking should never be the first line of discipline. There are some cases and children that warrant spanking. When spanking is used as a punishment, it has little effect other than creating fear. Punishment is designed to control behavior. Discipline is intended to a teach lesson and correct or reinforce behavior. Discipline involves teaching a child not only how to behave but the why as well. An important component of discipline is rewarding positive behavior. Many children misbehave simply because that is the only attention they get. You can read more on my views on discipline here.
Should schools be allowed to spank disobedient students?
In Texas there is a list of offenses that warrant paddling these include: fighting, extortion, having contra-ban on campus, attacking a teacher, among others. I taught in schools that preferred to have students arrested for most of those offenses rather than paddling. However, I was involved in one incident where a student was paddle. During passing period a student attacked called my name and when I turned to towards the student he came at me with blood. I was sent off campus to get cleaned up & checked out. The next day I discovered the student received swats not suspension due to his age (7). This happened during the passing period in a full courtyard. There were 60+ students and several teachers present. What if he had attacked one of the children. This child had serious mental issues and needed to be placed in different educational setting and unfortunately this didn’t happen until he injured another student a few years later. I don’t support spanking in schools.
As for spanking leading to abuse & child abuse in general. There is more awareness of child abuse than in the past. However, those charged with handling child abuse often have heavy case loads and many cases such as neglect or for children over 12 are ignored. As a teacher & youth minister the most common form of child abuse I have dealt with is neglect.
Does not spanking children lead them to aberrant adult behavior? Or does spanking them lead to aberrant adult behavior?
No. No. I think parental involvement is the key. Children who have parents who are actively engaged in their lives do better.
I just feel that saying “no one should spank EVAR!” is simplifying the problem too much. That is like saying we should outlaw rock music or video games.
Spanking has it’s place. It should NEVER be the first form of discipline or punishment….however, that doesn’t mean that **some** parents don’t over use it even to the point of abuse.
Banning it isn’t going to change those parents…they are going to do it anyway.
Should you spank? That is up to you and your kids. Maybe your kids don’t need to be spanked. I don’t know. I don’t know anyone’s kids but mine.
Have I personally spanked my son? Yes. But very very rarely. I believe the punishment should fit the crime and at 3yrs old there isn’t very much that I feel warrants a spanking (one time he bit me out of sheer anger, and he got a pop on the butt). He usually gets sent to his room (a form of time out) or gets something taken away.
Does it lead to behavior issues? That is tricky as well…are you talking about spanking all the time, or just sometimes, or just rarely? Are you talking spanking to the point of borderline abuse, or just one pop on the butt?
It also depends on the child. Does the child have other issues (ADHD or Depression for example) that no one has thought of? Are the parents just lousy parents in general?
Just like letting your kid run wild and letting them have their way can be detrimental, so can spanking. It is all defendant on the child and the parents.
I agree with Dee…that it is parents who are active in their kids lives who will make the difference, not spanking.
Oh, one more thing…all those infant mortality statistics aren’t always accurate. They also take into account premie babies which of course many do not survive after birth…they are still counted as infant mortality. Those studies don’t take into consideration what the child died from, only that x amount of children died and they count from the time they are born up to a certain number of years…many of those children died from causes such as prematurity or other health issues, not abuse from parents.
Sandy,
Saw something yesterday on CNN or Fox attributing the growing infant mortality rate in the US to lack of health care. Actually, the survival rate for preemies is on the rise.
DH
My point was though, that the infant mortality rates **usually don’t distinguish why the babies died…only that they did die and assuming it is because of abusive parents is kinda grasping for straws. They could have died from other causes such as prematurity, disease, etc. Of course lack of health care would be in that category… not everyone is able to get quality help for their sick children, especially if they are poor. That has nothing to do with abusive parents either.
Sandy,
I was referring to a recent study that I had seen on the news yesterday about the growing health care problem in the US>
I am a mother of three. My second born died after 5 weeks of life. I would like to address the spanking issue. In regards to the “Treat others as you want to be treated”, there is another phrase from the Bible which pertains to this discussion. “Spare the rod, spoil the child”. God does not condone abuse, but he does condone discipline. Including spanking! Yes, I was spanked, yes, I spank my child. It is a last resort, not a first. When nothing else works, not talking, not grounding, not priveledge removal, not timeout or the naughty spot, spanking works. My oldest is mad at me for a little while, but once he’s over it, we talk about why he got a spanking. For the most part he corrects his own behavior for a while after that. I do not feel that he is being abused, or mistreated. He knows that for each and every action there is an equal and proper reaction-or in this case, consequence. There are good consequences and bad consequences, which one does he want? The child makes it evident whether a spanking is required.
Well, that’s my feelings on the matter.
Thanks,
Melody